Transcript

Running Text
to armor (panzern) = "To make oneself impenetrable to something" TANK (Panzer) = "A battle vehicle with armored plates and chain wheels" / Music Magazine with Heiner Müller and the Death & Grind groups ABHORRENCE, ACROSTICHON, TOXAEMIA and DISGRACE
Intertitle
UNDER THE SIGN OF MARS Character Armor and Mobile Warfare - "Frozen Laundry - \-" ABHORRENCE/ Disintegration of flesh "The brain in its bone armor \--" "Christmas in the heart, Attack of the advance troops" (1941) What is it about tanks that fascinates you?
Kluge
On the one hand you have the tractor as an invention, a caterpillar tractor and a towing machine. It can drive cross-country and level trenches: it can handle the earth in a particular way. And secondly a shooting stand, an artillery position that can also be driven. And thirdly: armor. If you could talk about the components . . .
Müller
The problem is: why am I so fascinated by it? It is a question that I ask myself. Why am I fascinated by the word and idea of tanks.
Kluge
And also workers who build them, who can be totally fascinated by it.
Müller
That's right, by workers who build them ... yes, true. And that is definitely related to - perhaps this is too much psychology - a need for armor, with a subjective need for armor. That is why the tank is also an ideal.
Kluge
That is why it becomes even heavier. The first tanks are always light.
Müller
The other point is speed. By now that is no longer true of course, but in World War II it was still an image for speed.
Kluge
It could go 60-80 Kilometers per hour.
Müller
I personally never had anything to do with it directly. I had military training, but the war was nearing the end. And we had so-called enemy contact only once, that was with Soviet tanks, but already on the way to American imprisonment, because our officers understandably wanted to be captured by the Americans rather than the Russians. That is why we marched from Wismar towards Schwerin. We had bazookas and relatively old weapons, they were practically Norwegian muzzle-loaders.
Kluge
Could you shoot a bazooka?
Müller
I learned how to.
Kluge
What is a bazooka?
Müller
If only I still knew that. I have repressed that. That is strange. I had a complete so-called "Werewolf" training too. We practiced with bazookas. It was the mother of the Molotov cocktail, actually.
Kluge
It was a canon, a rocket gun.
Müller
A canon, yes.
Kluge
And in the recoil direction you couldn't ...
Müller
You could learn it relatively quickly. It was relatively easy to handle. But I can't describe it to you. It is so repressed.
Kluge
Did you ever shoot with it? Practice shots?
Müller
Only practice shots.
Intertitle
Music: ACROSTICHON/ Dehumanized
Kluge
What is it about a tank? The speed? A race car is fast, isn't it? Bernd Rosemeyer ...
Müller
There are maybe three things: Speed, protection and imprisonment. You know what the foot soldiers said about tanks. Right from the very beginning there were canned human beings who sat in those things, always with the potential ...
Kluge
Of roasting.
Müller
Of roasting. Because there are the three things:  speed and protection, which is the same as incarceration.
Kluge
If you were to think of Rome or Shakespeare in this regard. Where is there something similar?
Müller
Coriolanus. Coriolanus is a tank. A tank - as a man. Yes, yes.
Kluge
It is actually the commander and his bodyguard... and then indeed the turtle as well, the shields that combined create a tank.
Müller
But what is unusual in Coriolanus for example is something that Brecht never came to terms with in his adaptation. He actually wanted to write a play about Stalin. A play about the necessity and superfluity of the hero, the protagonist. That was his image of Stalin. That is Stalin - this great definition by him of Stalin as the well-deserved murderer of his people.
Kluge
Did Brecht write this down?
Müller
He didn't write it. He just said it. But I think there is a note in the archive. And that was meant very ambivalently. With "well-deserved" he meant . . .
Kluge
He didn't mean well-deserved" ironically?
Müller
He didn't mean it ironically at all. He also meant "murderer" very seriously. And in Coriolanus there is this unusual part that he couldn't comprehend, that this Coriolanus could be broken by a speech of his mother. There is of course something to that. The tank - no woman could have invented a tank. The tank is a completely masculine assertion of protection.
Kluge
Why do you say that?
Müller
You know, I don't think that if there were something like that, maybe it doesn't exist yet, but women do not need a tank.
Intertitle
Prototype of the tank Little Willie (1916) Successor of Little Willie "Mother" (1917) German soldiers are chased by Russian tanks (1944) Heavy Tank ("Tiger"/ 1943)
Music
TOXAEMIA/ Who Dies "Iron Coffin" Test-drive/ special wheel suspension/ "Race car of the war" - (1928) Guderian's Light Tanks cross a causeway-\- (1938) Tank "Mother" (1917), with wheels that are supposed to make steering easier - Stalin's tank from 1929 (Renaults) and the later T 34 with the diesel motors from 1944 - T 34
Music
DISGRACE/ Debts of Gods MARE "The Triumphant Return of the Tanks" (1917)
Music
ABHORRENCE/ Pestilential Mists/ Holy Laws of Pain
Running Text
to armor (panzern) = "To make oneself impenetrable to something" TANK (Panzer) = "A battle vehicle with armored plates and chain wheels" / Music Magazine with Heiner Müller and the Death & Grind groups ABHORRENCE, ACROSTICHON, TOXAEMIA und DISGRACE
Intertitle
UNDER THE SIGN OF MARS Character Armor and Mobile Warfare -